Musings from another time and another forum

I was going through some old files and had to install a Word Perfect converter to read an old archive. Many years ago I used to write at Gibe.com, in fact it is where I first started to write pseudo commentary (long) before Aloha Dump. I came across this gem in which I was in rare form and let someone named Horizon have it with both barrels. He was anti military, as evidenced by his post, and really bashed me for about a month before I wrote this final response- to which he never replied.

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Re: Crime & Punishment

05-01-97 03:48:39

horizon

Hey Shitster,

how can you be on the net, with more info at your fingertips than the world has ever known, and still be so unbelievably ignorant?

How is it that you can only look back as far as Iraq? I mean, I won't even go into the part where Hussein was "Our Boy" for years, only demonized by US, when he refused to obey.

How about the invasion of Vietnam? The carpet bombing of Cambodia and Laos? Military (torture) advisors in Guatemala, El Salvador, Brazil, Columbia, etc... US trained and funded troops raping, torturing and murdering mothers and fathers in front of their children (and vice versa) in Nicaragua. Are you proud of this? Because that is what you work for.

Why don't you try looking into the real history of your favorite institution of murder, the military. When's the last time you defended "our borders" from an actual attack? Or is it that "our" military is always sent abroad to act as the corporate cop, ensuring a safe and consistent flow of commodities (and therefore, profit)?

YOU ARE A SLAVE AND YOUR MASTER IS EVIL.

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My Master is Evil???

05-05-97 08:35:29

smitster

Well, folks, I just got back from raping and pillaging another third world country's village and read horizon's last post.

I've said it once and I'll say it again- It is obvious to me that you have never really understood the military, or how it works. There are those of us who speak from our EXPERIENCES in life and those who speak from what they manage to gleen from one's computer screen.

The problem with the latter is that they are really only parroting the agenda of those who are anti whatever. The inexperienced and naive take up the "cause" far too quickly.

 I haven't been to all those places you refer to- it was before my time. But I have read about them (as you suggested) and have talked to military people who have BEEN THERE and if you think the "US trained regime" isn't better than what was replaced then you are worse than uninformed, you are brain washed. If you think this would be a perfect world without the evil military then you are worse than naive, you are prejudiced.

The truth is, not one military man or woman who has died for this country wanted to. Not one soldier, airman, marine or sailor wants to go to war. We do what we are told to do by the PRESIDENT and CONGRESS. The military HAS NEVER BEEN AUTONOMOUS!! If we were then I'd be having sex with your sister and your father would be doing my gardening.

The military did not VOLUNTEER to bomb Cambodia, enter the Persian Gulf, invade Vietnam, retaleate for the slaughter in Pearl Harbor, defend the millions of jews being slaughtered by the Natzis, or engage in ANY DEFENSIVE OR OFFENSIVE ACT.

Now listen to this very carefully - WE HAVE ALWAYS ACTED ON THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT - ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS.

Yep, the same guy the majority of this country voted for.

Yes, we make deals with unconscionable leaders from other Nations. Yes, we train armies from other Nations that do terrible things to others. But how does that differ from our government, be it city, state or federal, giving immunity to one murdering rapist in order to convict another? How does that differ from big business polluting our planet with complete disregard for anyone or anything but a larger profit share? How does that differ from our solders being torn to shreds on razor wire in Viet Nam that was bought from companies in the United States, who cared more for profit than the Americans fighting the war? How does that differ from a "respectful" attorney whose job it is to ensure the freedom of a known killer or rapist? How does that differ from a hospital who refuses care to the sick and injured who have no insurance because money is more important than healing?

Sadam Hussain's army raped and plundered their way across the desert - that was an attrocity. We were sent there to end it. Was it based on oil? Well duh! Wake up and smell the roses. If you don't like that cause then park your car, turn off your fossil fuel eating computer and sit in a dark corner playing with yourself while relishing in this new "perfect world" you want so badly.

Here is how it works: Big business, that is the car you drive, the mall you shop in, the housing development you live in, the insurance companies you have to use, the medical facilities that keep you well, the construction industry that builds the roads, bridges and infastructure you rely on, and even the companies that build your computers and act as servers for your internet, pay billions of dollars in the form of PAC money that is used to get our government officials reelected. In turn, those government officals protect the interests of those businesses. Government has an agency that ensures those interests are protected: locally it is the city police, then the state police and on up to that oh so evil US Military.

Is it a perfect system? Well, of course not. But from someone who speaks from experience, it is the best one around. The men and women who serve this nation in the military are some of the finest. They are just like any other American. We don't want to be away from our families, we don't want to go in harm's way, but we do. We do it because we feel our way of life is worth protecting. We do it because we took an oath to follow the orders of the President of the United States. We do not think every order is a good one - but we are men and women of honor and integrity and we keep our word.

"When's the last time you defended 'our borders' from an actual attack?" you ask.

In today's warfare, if we wait to fight only at our borders then we have waited too long. Many, many things threaten our way of life. Yes, a threat to the flow of oil is a threat to our way of life. If you, as an American, are not willing to give up all those things that require fossil fuels then don't complain about those who risk their lives to protect it. If you think the only fight to be fought is one that starts on our borders then get some education on warfare, as displeasing as that might be.

There are many ways to serve this nation, not just in the military. But regardless of how one chooses to serve, the bottom line is that those efforts will strengthen the "system." I would ask, "How are you serving? How are you making a difference?" If the answer is " I am sitting at my computer criticizing those who do.", then you are a waste to this society and a waste of my time. How many letters to your Congressmen have you written, or even to the Pres? Does it even come close to the amount of babble you have posted here?

One other observation, name calling such as "Shitster" is not indicative of a mature, thinking individual who's thoughts, ideas and concepts should be listened to. If you want to have a discourse about the military, or anything of importance, then try to have a mature, open, unpredjudiced and meaningful discourse.

Here is some unsolicited advice: EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA,

Everything you read, see, or hear is slanted to the author's opinion. Somewhere in the middle of all the rhetoric and opinions is the truth and YOU must search for it. Truth is rarely found at the extreme right or left of any ideal or belief. During the search for truth, have a deep respect for those you come into contact with.

I use sarcasm a lot but I still respect the opinions of the other posters. I don't know how this ended up in Crime and Punishment, I wish it would have originated in the Military topic.

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Re: Crime & Punishment

05-05-97 20:10:36

gayusa@aol.com

Welcome back Smitster. Great post.