A revisit
Because I don't have a very large readership some good conversation gets lost because either I don't go back to the posts and keep the conversation going or my readers don't.
I posted a good piece that had some commentary about Bush just to get some stuff off my chest. Some really good conversation followed but I neglected to go back and respond to one of the comments, not only Little Cicero's invitation to reciprocal links but also of my friend Andy.
When talking of Bush and Gitmo, and the problems associated with that sovereign piece of U.S. on Cuban soil, Andy said this:
I don't know what the hell we are going to do either. Our legal system is so delicate. I equate the problem in Gitmo with that of what our law enforcement people deal with every day. A piece of crap is captured, we know he is a piece of crap, we know he has done bad things and probably, given the chance, will continue to do bad things- but we just haven't seen him do bad things. Quite and conundrum but this is what separates us from the uncivilized world of the Arabs where a beheading or hand mutilation follows any suspicion of bad activity. We gotta let 'em go.
Here we are with hundreds of bad guys in detention in Guantanamo, captured on the filed of battle or turned over to us by our allies. I think the Gitmo guys face the same Capone-ish problem: we know they are bad, just can't prove it. I have no doubt that when these guys are released they will kill an American at the first available opportunity. Thus the delicate and sometimes unfair balance of justice. "Hey remember that guy they released from Gitmo last month? Ran a gas truck into school of handicapped children where some guy was giving a speech." But at least our justice system worked as intended.
the other 50% of Andy's comment I take exception with. It may be hyper-patriotic of me to say but after almost 19 years of military service I think I am entitled. Dear friend, it was not Bush who started this.
I posted a good piece that had some commentary about Bush just to get some stuff off my chest. Some really good conversation followed but I neglected to go back and respond to one of the comments, not only Little Cicero's invitation to reciprocal links but also of my friend Andy.
When talking of Bush and Gitmo, and the problems associated with that sovereign piece of U.S. on Cuban soil, Andy said this:
I don't know what the solution is. But I do know who started the problem.And, as usual with Andy, I do agree with 50% of that comment.
I don't know what the hell we are going to do either. Our legal system is so delicate. I equate the problem in Gitmo with that of what our law enforcement people deal with every day. A piece of crap is captured, we know he is a piece of crap, we know he has done bad things and probably, given the chance, will continue to do bad things- but we just haven't seen him do bad things. Quite and conundrum but this is what separates us from the uncivilized world of the Arabs where a beheading or hand mutilation follows any suspicion of bad activity. We gotta let 'em go.
Here we are with hundreds of bad guys in detention in Guantanamo, captured on the filed of battle or turned over to us by our allies. I think the Gitmo guys face the same Capone-ish problem: we know they are bad, just can't prove it. I have no doubt that when these guys are released they will kill an American at the first available opportunity. Thus the delicate and sometimes unfair balance of justice. "Hey remember that guy they released from Gitmo last month? Ran a gas truck into school of handicapped children where some guy was giving a speech." But at least our justice system worked as intended.
the other 50% of Andy's comment I take exception with. It may be hyper-patriotic of me to say but after almost 19 years of military service I think I am entitled. Dear friend, it was not Bush who started this.
Thank you for your great response, Mike.
ReplyDeleteI have made a few posts concerning the Gitmo issue- Outraged, Burning Bush, and Out of Whack- just to name a few, and I don't know if you have been able to read down that far into my months of blogging, but I share no sympathy for the terrorist shitheads that occupy our detention facilities. If this post seemed like I was getting soft on them then I have horribly misrepresented my position.
Except for the sparse few who are being detained unfairly, and I know that the liberals are going to whine that being held for 4 years without charges is being unfair, the rest of the detainees can rot for all I care.
Perhaps I should have expanded on a few points in my post; sometimes I start writing and the flood of ideas and analogies overwhelms me and I forget what it was I actually wanted to say. Charge the people with something. If people are so worried about the terrorist's rights then for fuck sake charge them with something like, oh, I don't know, being a shithead?
I understand what the last part of your reply is saying all too well. Letting them go would be a bad idea because they would run right out and kill us given the chance. Showing them justice or mercy will only be regarded as weakness.
The crime fighting mentality is indeed the wrong approach to take and I mentioned it only in theory not in practice to illustrated my points, which looks like were lost in the process.
Thank you again for this reply, for a reciprocal viewpoint and for giving valid reasons to hold them indefinitely instead of "Because they are shitheads."
While I definately don't buy into the terrorist apologists idea of what to do with the bad guys I guess my "charge them something" response is becuase I am sick of hearing about the whole thing.
ReplyDelete"There, we charged them with killing/trying to kill/plotting to kill Americans. Now shut the hell up about it."
All those things you talk about are true- if we were actually AT WAR! Congress never declared war and we’re are at more of a police state as far as the Geneva Convention is concerned. The Gitmo situation is not about the detainees and never was. It is about presidential power and how much more warmongering this administration can get away with.
ReplyDeleteWe try to project that democracy is a good thing, we try to win the hearts and minds of the country we are occupying, we pass out toys and candy to children and then hold illegally people for more than 4 years. Way to set back our judicial system 200 years. We aren’t at war so your points are moot. Those people and anyone else we capture are subject to due legal process. They aren’t charged with anything because we can’t prove anything. We just swept up any Arab looking person we could find and labeled them terrorists to ‘protect’ our nation from them.
It is very true that the people we are fighting are bad and do bad things. But we are no better than they are and slap democracy in the face when we do not practice what we preach.
I post as anonymous because I do not want your warmongering views and opinions infecting my blog.
I think "someone" needs a lesson in what the definition of 'warmongering' is:
ReplyDeleteMain Entry: war·mon·ger
Pronunciation: 'wor-"m&[ng]-g&r, -"mä[ng]-
Function: noun
: one who urges or attempts to stir up war
Nowhere in trickishknave's posts have I read any "urging or attempting to stir up war". Being in the military doesn't mean you are a warmongerer.
And for the record, while Congress may not have declared war in Iraq or Afghanistan, they DID authorize "extended military engagements" - just shy of formally declaring war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States
Ah, Old Anonymous has returned. This sounds like the same post in my 'How To Spot A Liberal' entry some months ago. A satirical jibe at liberals wastaken as a persoanl attack and it seems that someone got thier feelings hurt again.
ReplyDeleteThis post has to be a troll because there is just so much idiocy in this response that it holds as much water as a screen door on a submarine.
If you take objection to Mike's post concerning detainee treatment then I suggest you go to his site and inquire because my reader base isn't that large and I get butterflies anyone comes back at all.
As for my comments and your insinuation that I am a warmongerer I have to wave a dismissive hand and give you the obligatory
/wrist
You orbit around the technicality of war from a safe distance all the while launching rhetoric against the way we defend ourselves from people who have no honor code when it comes to rules of engagment. Unless you consider "Cut their fucking heads off" an ROE.
I repsect your anonymity for fear of my reprisals on your blog, and you should be. Hit and run posts like this lend nothing to your credibility and I have no dout my comments would be deleted on your anti Bush, terrorist sympathizing site anyway.
You might want to get your North Korea flags out and wave them in support of the next few missile launches.